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Comparatives and Superlatives Part Four

Establishing the comparative and superlative system for Diinlang has proved troublesome. Part of the problem is that English words like “more” and “most” are also used as nouns, pronouns and determiners as well as being adverbs.
My most recent strategy is to approach these words from a different direction by considering their use as quantifiers. The new Diinlang system of pluralizing the determiner rather than the noun has actually helped clarify things.
Wikipedia tells us that:
English has the following quantifier pronouns:
Uncountable (thus, with a singular verb form)
  • enough – Enough is enough.
  • little – Little is known about this period of history.
  • less – Less is known about this period of history.
  • much – Much was discussed at the meeting.
  • more – More is better. (Also countable plural; see there.)
  • most – Most was rotten. (Usually specified, such as in most of the food.) (Also countable plural; see there.)
  • plenty – Thanks, that's plenty.
Countable, singular
  • one – One has got through. (Often modified or specified, such as in a single one, one of them etc.)
Countable, plural
  • several – Several were chosen.
  • few – Few were chosen.
  • fewer – Fewer are going to church these days.
  • many – Many were chosen.
  • more – More were ignored. (Often specified, such as in more of us.) (Also uncountable, see there.)
  • most – Most would agree. (Also uncountable, see there.)
The original Diinlang comparative and superlative system used –ha and –ho as suffixes, the equivalent of the English system of using –er and –est. “Good, better, best” becomes “bon, bonha, bonho” in Diinlang.
“-ta” has been introduced as an augmentative in Diinlang and “-ko” as a diminutive. Logically these words on their own would mean “big/ large quantitiy/ much” or “small/ little/ not much”. It therefore logically follows that taha and taho would mean “more” or “most” of an uncountable quantity. Koha and koho would mean a lesser or least amount. (Bear in mind that in English “less” is sometimes used as a comparative instead of “lesser”).
When used with countable nouns “many”, “more” and “most” are only used with plural nouns and often mean “high number of”, “higher number of” and “highest number of/ majority of”). Since in Diinlang the determiner is usually pluralized rather than the noun we get taz, tazha and tazho (or taz, tahaz or tahoz). Few, fewer etc, meaning “a small number of” and so on become koz, kozha etc.
Words concerned with numbers  of things therefore have a plural “-z” ending while those concerned with size or other quantities that may be uncountable do not.
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Language

Diinlang Numbers

Version 1.1
Like most of Diinlang the numbering system is a work in progress and subject to change.
Numbers in Diinlang derive from ISV prefixes with some modifications for increased clarity.
1 uni               8 okt               36 triten heks
2 duo              9 niyn             42 tetten duo
3 tri                10 ten             54 pentteni tet
4 tet                11 ten uni       69 hekten niyn
5 pent             12 ten duo     78 septten okt
6 heks             13 ten tri        83 oktten tri
7 sept              20 duoten     99 niynten niyn
The use of deka for 10 would make 20 duodeka and cause confusion with terms such as duodecimal and hexadecimal. The English “ten” has the merit of being one syllable. Likewise “niyn” is clearer than the Latin and Greek derived “ennea” and “nona”.
Larger numbers are hekta (100), kila (1000), mega (1,000,000), tera (1,000,000,000,000 or 1012 ) and yotta (1024). Other numbers are formed from combinations of these: deka kilia is 10,000, kilia mega is 1,000,000,000.
Ordinal numbers (the equivalent of “first”, “third”, “eighty second” etc could be formed by adding “-nd” to the final number word. Therefore “unind”, “trind” “oktten duond”. It may be clearer to use the system where ordinals are formed by placing the number after the thing described. Hence “tri kanisiz” is “three dogs” while “kanisi tri” is “third dog”. This is consistent with the proposed system of placing adjectives after the noun. Cardinal numbers are treated as determiners, ordinal numbers as adjectives
A suffix/ word for “group” could be used to form words such as “dual”, “pair”, “trio” etc.
“Duzn” is an alternate word for 12 and used when working in dozenals. “Elva” (from Swedish) is an alternate for 11. When working with dozenals 144 or 122 is “grohs” and 123 or 1728 is a tsagiir.

Update

Using “ten” may cause confusion with the “ten-” radio code system. “Diis”, adapted from Haitian Creole may be a more suitable word for 10 and  has the advantage that it is closer to the words used in many European languages.
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Language

Interjections

Version 1.
I have not devoted much time to interjections since most interjections are going to arise naturally so it is pointless to try to define them. There are going to be natural sounds like “huh” and “umm”. The Diinlang word “ke” can serve as a verbal marker for questions, the most likely use being to replace the sound “eh?” at the end of a statement.
I would suggest adopting “hey” as the standard greeting. It already fits the pronunciation standards of Diinlang, is already in wide use and is widely understood by the speakers of various languages. It serves to say “hello”, “I am here” and also “I acknowledge you”.
“Tshou” may be used as either a greeting or parting phrase. This is a phonetic rendition of the Italian “ciao” which has come to be used by many other nationalities. Both tshou and hey are time-independent greetings, useful in the modern world where people routinely communicate from different time zones.
“Sori” (sorry) seems like a good word to retain/ adopt for Diinlang. “No” is already in use in Diinlang and widely understood.
“Ya” or “yah” is used for “yes”. This allows us to retain the convention of “Y or N” with computers.
Originally I had the term “pro favori” for “please” but this is too many syllables. The word “miask” (from “I ask”) is used for “please” when making a request. It has been selected for verbal compactness and to remind the speaker that they are making a request, not a demand.
The word “kanen” means “gratitude” and can be used for “please” and for “thank you?” I do not recall how I selected this word but it will do for now.
“Sku”  is used for “apology” or an alternate for “sorry”.
“Skuz” therefore means “many apologies”.
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Language

Updated Determiners

Version 1.3
Having upgraded the articles and touched on the subject of quantifiers it seems prudent to post some ideas on other determiners. Some of my older suggestions were based on the comparative/ superlative endings and the definite and indefinite articles, all of which have now changed.
 
any                  enje
Derived from Mandarin “rènhé”, it sounds very close to English term too.
 
all/ every        pan or omni
This was originally a superlative of the indefinite article. The ISV term “pan” is simpler. Depending on phrase syntax this word can also mean “whole/ entire”. “Pan dez kanis” = “All the dogs” ; “Pan jez kanis” = “All dogs (indefinite)” ; “De pan kanis” = “The whole dog”. Instead of using a word for “both” the Diinlang speaker would say “pan duo”, “all two”. This more versatile construction can be used with other numbers, for example, “pan tet”, “all four”.
 
each                jede
Formed by combining indefinite article “je” with the general definite “de”.
 
very                 reta
A combination of the prefix meaning repetition “re-” with the augmentive ending “-ta”.
 
much             mas
many             masiz
In English “much” is used with uncountable nouns and “many” with countable nouns. It remains to be seen if such a distinction is needed in Diinlang. Use with a plural noun may be distinction enough. As an adverb “mas” is used as a prefix. As a determiner or pronoun it may be a stand alone word or part of a phrase. The same comments apply to “las” for “few/ little”. Words for quantity or number might be used instead or combined with “mas-” serving as a prefix. In the newer system these words are “ta” and “taz”.
 
other              olt
“Olt” is a phonetic spelling of “alt” derived from “alternative”.
 
another/ one more      uni mes  (uni eta)
The words for “another” are a direct translation of “one more”.
 
a few/ a little            uni las. (uni ko)
This resembles in structure translations in a number of other languages. “A lot” would logically be uni mas. (uni ta)
 
everything          pande/panje/panit
Literally “all things” – once the preferred term for “things” is decided.
none, no one, nothing      noze, noje or nojhen.
“Jhen” is person so “no one” is logically “nojhen”. The term for “nothing” will depend on the final form of “everything”.  

Update

These determiners can also be used as indefinite pronouns to form the equivalents of “no one, nobody, somebody, anybody, everything, the other” etc.
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Updated Definite Article

Version 1.1
In a previous post I proposed the idea that the Diinlang words for “this” and “that” could be met with the Diinlang words for “here” and “there”, which are “vang” and “ving”. The plural forms of these words, vangz and vingz serve as “these” and “those”.
A similar economy can be gained by using the third person pronouns as the definite article. This also frees up “di” to mean “from” or “of”. “Ze” is the default form, with “zo” or “za” being used when gender needs to be stated or emphasized. The use of “ze” becomes “fuzzier”. Ze can be used for singular or plural. Ze can be used of animate or inanimate. Ze can be used where the gender is unknown or unstated.
Ze kanis bi vang. = The dog is here.
Ze bi vang. = It is here.
Zo bi vang. = He is here.
Zo kanis bi vang. = The (male) dog is here.
This idea meshes nicely with the idea of gendering words by using “zo-” or “za-” as prefixes, creating the equivalent of constructions such as “she-wolf” or “he-goat”. When a word is so prefixed a preceding definite article is unnecessary.
Some nouns in Diinlang already have a gender. This includes agent nouns that use “-zo” or “-za” or their plural forms as a suffix. In such cases the definite article and the noun gender should not contradict. You can use a neutral article (ze) with a gendered noun or a gendered article with a neutral noun. You cannot use a feminine article with a masculine noun or a masculine article with a feminine noun!
For certain sentences the second person pronoun may be used as a definite article. A likely context would be when addressing several people directly but attempting to signify one in particular. For example, in English a waiter might say “The gentleman will taste the wine?” In Diinlang the second person pronoun “tu” would be used as the definite article instead of “ze”, “zo” or “za”, creating a sentence that translates as “You gentleman will taste the wine?”

Update

The definite article has earned a reprieve! It occurred to me that the above use of “ze” may make it difficult to identify nouns from verbs. The system of using articles to identify plurality remains in place however. The definite article will be “de” with “dez” as the plural form. The indefinite article is “je” or “jez”. When “zo-/ za-” or “zoz-/ zaz-” are used to indicate gender the definite article can be ommited.
Sona uses the definite article to also serve as a word for “it”. “De” on its own could have the same use. By the same logic “je” on its own could have the meaning “something”.
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More on Plurals

In English one of the ways to determine if a word is a noun is to see if it has a plural form.
This does not work with uncount nouns, so another useful indicator is to see if the word  or phrase has a definite or indefinite article.
This suggests that in Diinlang a phrase can be made plural by pluralizing the article rather than the noun or noun phrase.
One objection to such a system is that articles may be dropped. Consider an exclamation such as “Dogs!” A single, pluralized syllable conveys the presence of dogs and that there is more than one.
If a number or quantifier is used in place of an article it may be argued that pluralizing the noun may be redundant. A sentence such as “Five chicken ran” can be ambiguous without background context. It could mean five chickens were running but might also indicate a particular chicken with the name or number “five”. The option of pluralizing the noun can clarify the meaning.
In Diinlang it might be said that plurals are formed by article form and/or with a noun suffix. In some languages article and noun are required to agree. If an article is plural the noun should be a plural form too. In Diinlang this is unnecessary and redundant. It should not be considered to be incorrect, however. The variations in pluralizing will suit users of different native language backgrounds or may improve the euphonics of a phrase.
Often in Diinlang there is more than one correct way to say something. The objective is to promote communication and clarity rather than observance of unnecessary rules.
Plurals are formed in Diinlang by adding “-z”. For words that end in a sibilant such as “s” “-iz” is used instead.  Thus “Dogs!” could be translated as:
Kanisiz!
Zez kanis!
Ze kanisiz!
Zez kanisiz!
Jez kanis!
Je kanisiz!
Jez kanisiz!

Update

It is unnecessary to pluralize a noun if the noun is accompanied by a plural form of pronoun, article, determiner, numeral or quantifier. If a noun has a plural form of gender prefix ( zoz-, zaz-) it is also obviously plural. If a noun does not have an article etc it can be pluralized by adding the neuter equivalent of the plural gender prefix.
Hence, “zez-kanis” = “dogs”.
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Comparatives and Superlatives Part Three

Sometimes, I have been known to take my own advice…
I have been thinking further on the topic of comparatives and superlatives. In my last post in this vein I proposed “plu-”, “plust-”, “min-”, “minst-” for the “more, most” and “less, least/ fewer, fewest” sequences. Using words that are common to several other constructed languages can be a mixed blessing. I notice that Interglossa makes considerable use of “plu” but uses it as an article to indicate plurality. A bigger problem is that I have words for the comparatives and superlatives but no related word for the positives: “much/ many” and “few/ little”.
In my post on the “vang, veng, ving, vong” progression I mentioned that when I came up with the concept of relating words by an alphabetical vowel progression I had expected to make more use of it than I had.
Thinking on this I now propose the sequences “mas, mes, mos” and “las, les, los”. The first is easy to remember since some of the words resemble English words such as “mass” and “most”. “Mas” is reminiscent of “mais”, the Portuguese word for more/ most. “Les” phonetically resembles its English meaning, “less”. All of the words have the common theme of ending in “-s”.
Some languages use an “absolute superlative”. To do this in Diinlang use mos– with the augmentive suffix –ta or los– with the diminutive suffix, –ko.
The use of “mes” here means that we can no longer use it for the small/ medium/ large progression. In another recent post I remarked on the tendency to create new words were familiar English ones would do. “Gros” is somewhat ambiguous since it can also indicate a number (144), a quantity or something unpleasant. The English word “big” is, however, widely understood and has surprisingly few alternate meanings, even in other languages. Using “big-“ as a prefix has echoes of various pidgins and creoles but that is not necessarily a bad thing. Those are languages that evolved for clearer communication so have some features worth examining. “Mes” in this progression gets replaced with “mid”, another simple word whose meaning will be clear and logical to many who encounter it.
Small/Medium/Large are now represented in Diinlang by “mik, mid, big”. These may be combined to indicate intermediate graduations using the words “mikmid” and “midbig”.
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Creating Adjectives

Version 2
In previous posts I have touched on the subject that certain nouns and verbs will require more than one adjective form. It would be very nice if one could simply produce a set of rules that says “adjectives with this suffix in English become this word form in Diinlang”. Unfortunately, suffixes in English are far too diverse and inconsistent for this to be practical. Hogben gives some insights into the problems inherent in such an approach.
As Hogden notes, many of the more modern adjectives have been created by using a noun or verb-derived noun. In Diinlang the progressive/continuous form of the verb and the perfect form have both been designed so they can be used as single word nouns or adjectives. The progressive/continuous form for the verb “VERB” would be “isVERB”. The perfect form would be “dunVERB”. As in English the progressive/continuous form may be considered to be active in nature and the perfect passive in nature. Therefore rather than the perfect form we use the passive, “geVERB” form. From the verb root we can also create animate and inanimate agent nouns: VERBze and VERBit. These may also provide adjectives, as potentially the derived patient noun, VERBge.
A large number of adjectives for Diinlang can be created from verbs and nouns by using the active or passive participle. To do this it is necessary to determine if the adjective would have an active or a passive role in a noun phrase using it. As Hogben notes, an “-ing” or “-ed/ en” ending in English as they are used is not always reliable. Replacing the adjective in English with an “-ing” or “-ed” form can give a hint to whether it is passive or active. A “scary man” can be termed a “scaring man” so this is active. A “scared man” is not the same as a “scaring man”. “Scared man” is passive.
If the adjective describes something that the noun is feeling, experiencing or doing then it is active and the “isVERB” form should be used.
If the noun is the recipient of the effect the adjective describes the passive (“geVERB”) form is used. i.e. something is “being/getting/got done” to the noun or the noun has that status or state.
The above system will deal with the majority of adjective (or adverb) generation for Diinlang. A smaller collection of words may require different solutions.
Firstly, there are the words whose primary function is adjectival. These include words for colour or size, for example. The above protocol can be used to modify these words if necessary. A “blue compound” can become a “bluing compound” or a “blued compound” by adding a “is-” or “ge-” prefix to the word selected for “blue”. An adjective can be converted to a concrete noun by adding “-it” to make it into an inanimate agent noun. An abstract noun can be created by adding the suffix “-ia”. Hence the Diinlang word for “blueness” would end in “-ia”.
Many of the variations of words will be created by compounding words rather than using a long list of empty suffixes. Many English adjectives that end in –able or –ble therefore are a compound with “zhan” (to be able). Words for edible, readable, drinkable may all be compounds of “-zhan”. The potential passiveness of some meanings may need to be addressed.
Words that denote something is caused or evoked will also be compounds, probably using the word “fiy” for to make or construct. Thus to words for “weaponize” or “liquidize” will be closer in sound to their alternative of “weaponify” and “liquefy”. To change something into water would be to “kwafiy”.
Another compound will be created to mean “becoming” or “beginning”.
English words that use the suffix “–less” in the sense of not having a property will most likely be constructed as a compound with the word “zero”, although for some senses “no” or “non-“ might be used instead.  The opposite of “-less” words in English often have the suffix “-ful” in the sense of completely having a property. Logic suggests Diinlang use a compound with a word for “total” for this sense. Terms such as “handful” and “cupful” can be translated literally.
A large variety of English suffixes indicate that the subject contains the quality described. Logically words such as “sugary”, “hairy” might be translated into compounds with the word “kom” (“with”), possibly combined with a comparative.
A potentially useful suffix would be “-yi”, the equivalent of “-y”, “-ie”, “-e” and “-ey” in English. Creates the meaning of “having the quality of” when used with nouns and adjectives and “inclined to” on verbs. Examples in English include slimy, baggy, runny etc. “-li” might be used to make adverbs and adjectives of manner.
Saying that something is “wooden” or “metallic” is redundant when one can simply use “wood” or “metal” as an adjective. Metallic also has the sense that something resembles metal in some respects but is not necessarily metal. Compound words that indicate varying degrees of resemblance will also be needed. “-ish” and “-oid” are potential candidates already in wide use in many other languages. The word “iso” for “same” may also see use.
There are still some words that do not fit into the categories above. Many adjectives have a meaning of “pertaining to” or “to do with” without denoting a particularly active or passive meaning. For such adjectives the suffix “-al” can be used, although it can be regarded as optional and can be omitted if the word will not be confused with a noun. Possibly the ending “-an” would be used for adjectives relating to space and time, such as the names of nationalities.
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Why not English?

The article here makes a very good point.
There seems to be a widespread reluctance with conlang constructors to draw upon English.
Admittedly English is often highly irregular in both spelling and verb structure.
It has many homophones and the same word can sometimes have widely differing, even contradictory meanings.
Consider “boat made fast” -was the boat modified to be faster, or tied up so it did not move?
On the other hand, the basic grammar of English is relatively simple if we ignore eccentricities such as do-support and inversion of questions.
A selling point of English is that it is the most widely spoken language.
Chinese may be spoken by more individuals but English is spoken globally.
Many people across the world have some measure of English as a second or third language.
As is noted, a big chunk of the world speaks bad English, which includes a very large number of British and Americans!
English has many words that will be comprehensible to non-English speakers.
Many of these words are single syllable words too, making them good choices for “bricks” for Diinlang.
Providing that such words have limited or relatively small interrelated meanings such words can be a good source for the Diinlang vocabulary.
There is little point in creating a two or three syllable pseudo-Latin/Greek/European word when a single syllable English word will be more concise and intelligible.
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Musings on Adjectives

Version 1.1
Adjectives proved to be another thorny field, partially due to trying to standardize the byzantine English suffix system!
Ideally, a word in a constructed language (conlang) should be capable of acting as a noun, verb, adjective or adverb without modification. This occurs with some English words. “Green” is an adjective but if I put a determiner before it it can be used as a noun for something that is green, such as a snooker ball. If I write “the green book” then “green” is once more being an adjective, even though it directly follows a determiner. When I say “it was green painted” I am using “green” as an adverb. Perscriptionists may argue that the “correct” form is “greenly” but the meaning is clear and free of ambiguity, which should be the test of any language.
Some conlangs mark adjectives and/or adverbs with a distinctive ending but these often fail to distinguish between distinct sub-types of modifier. Such conventions often slow the learner down while they have to consider the category of a word rather than its meaning.
In practice a root word used as a modifier may have several forms. Consider “green”, “greenish”, “greenoid”, “greening”, “greenicize”,“greenescent” . Some of these are not in the dictionary but to a native English speaker each has a different but clear meaning.
In English word order is typically used to distinguish adjectives. Generally the adjective is placed before the noun it modifies and after the noun’s determiner, if stated. A noun may have multiple adjectives and the meaning can often become confused. “Two more ugly girls” could mean “two addition girls that are ugly” or could be poor English for “two girls that are more ugly/uglier”.
According to Wikipedia, Chinese adjectives should be combined in a specific order, this being quality/size, shape, colour. This may be a good concept to modify for Diinlang.
A suggested, more expansive order for use with English is given here and here.
In many languages adjectives are placed after the noun rather than before it. Thus the phrase rather resembles how a British army quartermaster lists items “boots, size 8, black”. A good argument can be made that placing the noun before the adjectives is considerably more logical and clearer.  I begin to look for a book before I consider that it is green. Better to alert someone first that the subject is “cars” before stating the make.
Ideally in Diinlang a noun could be placed either before or after a noun and the meaning still be clear. Whether that is practical remains to be seen. If an “adjective after” convention is used for Diinlang this would probably only apply to certain classes of adjective. It seems logical to place numbers and related quantity words before the noun. This would be a simple way to distinguish between cardinal and ordinal numbers. For example “one room” is distinct from “room one”. The words for “good” (“bon”) and “bad”(“mal”) may also be more logical before the noun, as is practiced in some “noun first” languages such as Portuguese.
Words such as mik/ mid/ big are clearly quality/size adjectives. I had been using as augmentive and diminutive suffixes but this will not work if such adjectives are placed after the noun or can appear before or after the noun. This needs to be addressed.